Instead, our system considers things like how recent a review is and if the reviewer bought the item on Amazon. That years ago and now I see that they have bottles store themselves sitting upside down. These stats are from Titebonds physical properties page for each product. These tend to blush and for some folks also can be reactive (allergic).West does offer some fine professional grade epoxies and specialty formulations, some of which cant be beat. Ive used it for years and never had problems. Secondly, supposedly it dries more brittle or shall I say less rubbery. Wood Glue, Extend Original, Slow Set, Size 16 oz., Yellow, Temp. For those of us too cheap to fully heat their shops, this is a boon. Both combinations offer a good contrast, but similar modulus. Ive used many gallons of it on laminated arches. Small caliber, all lead, probably a 22. Im on the Tite Bond 3 train, doesnt hurt to cover all your bases. Darn that comment was not for this reply lol. Thanks for the kind response and all the definitive information, it is very much appreciated! and I enjoyed your humor in reference to the hot water delamination issue with epoxy! Should I glue the bench top or use 2 1/2 #8 screws? I usually wait a few minutes for it to form barely solid beads before cutting it off. I personally dont see the glue lines w/ walnut + titebond 2 but thats just me. Its the only time Ive bought it as a result. Reviewed in the United States on August 16, 2021. So I bought PVC pickets, treated posts and rails. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. I had that experience the first time I used Gorilla glue. But for laminating the thin stock and veneers that make up the bindings and purflings, which have to be steam- bent to shape, I use TB III. My idea is to use a more waterproof fabric application, also using a waterproof fabric, eliminating many of the issues associated with this covering technique. Only thing I have is this series of numbers. It does not have to set completely but it needs to hold so that working on the next strip does not move it. Marc mentioned that the 150F strength for Titebond III drops to 800 psi, and the Web site also shows the wood failure rate for this same temperature is 0% (zero). Great thread, me Ive got a question applying 5 mil copper sheet to wood, outdoor project, its a moongate so the object will you not be touched by anything other than the elements. Great summary you should put this on the new forum in the joinery/construction section. However, your post brought this question to mind again, so I looked it up. TiteBond III does pass this test (just barely), but epoxy doesnt. Any comments on the best glue to use to reglue? Im working with Western Red Cedar and I have lots of glue joints. When I tried gluing the first Dado piece into the cedar I could hardly get it in. Next time bend your wood rather than stacking. Dont ever use water to release hide on a violin!!! That improves the instruments sustain or the time that a strummed string will produce a tone. , Manufacturer You either need to remove that glue and then repeat the glueup or you need to switch to a different adhesive. You can buy epoxy in a cartridge system, where you just squeeze the trigger and mixed goo comes out the end. Has anyone had any similar problems? It hardened and was ruined. The glue is stronger but the wood fails less frequently? Nice to get a refresher about the uses of the 3 Titebonds. In California I had half a lifetime to clean up drips, in Utah I have no such luxury. Please call us at: 1-800-HOME-DEPOT (1-800-466-3337), Please enter in your email address in the following format: you@domain.com. We make splined picture frames, and sometimes I cheat the minimum working temperature up here in upstate ny. thanks, this can be significant, where the article appears to say all other factors between 2 and 3 are too small to concern our selves. Honestly I have a 40 year old cutting board that has gone through the dish washer maybe 100 times and it was probably glued up with plain old yellow glue and it still is 100% fine, so we are talking theoretical v actual, when any of these glues would be fine for 99% of projects. Im planning to glue a couple of hundred small (+- 1 1/2 sq surface area) miters. If looking for a quality, non-amine cure epoxy (non-blushing, less reactive to people), try Raka or one of the products at Progressive Polymers. But I do appreciate that there has been someone who finally explained it in a manner I can understand. Two alternatives I recommend are the blush free formulations from http://www.epoxyproducts.com and the Marinepoxy from http://www.bateau.com. Using loose tenons for the stile/rail connection, with 3 of length into each member. Or is there a solvent that would work better? Bought it because of the waterproof rating, but for outdoor use Titebond II would have been sufficient? There was an error retrieving your Wish Lists. This will work on exterior applications, even those in highly moist locations. Should I ever be compensated to write, I will make full disclosure. I just bought heavy duty teak outdoor furniture. There are actually a number of differences between the three glue types if you dig into the details. Anyone have any experience on whether this glue will work for such a project? and I found that if I put the glue on every surface, it dries up a bit before I can get the whole thing together. Thanks for your time. I need to replace a broken part that was bonded to another with Titebond II. A properly-fit joint with the appropriate amount of pressure will create an incredibly strong and reliable bond using any of the three glues. 'Nuff said. A way around this is to back cut or hollow the joint a bit, offer a place for the epoxy to live, yet have the edges of the joint touch, hiding the glue line. The reason violins are still mostly built with hide glue aside from tradition, is hide comes apart easily with moderate heat. I mostly work with darker woods so deeper color can be a plus, but of course Id never leave any glue residue, he, he, he. Your recently viewed items and featured recommendations, Select the department you want to search in. If joint is with the grain, will be virtually invisible. cant get better proof than that of its adhesive properties. This time it happens to be Titebond III. Titebond Original is for interior use only, Titebond II is water-resistant, and Titebond III is waterproof (well, technically its MORE water-resistant). Man I never would have thought to bring the glue into the house, Im reminded now why I read TWW. Virtually as strong as Titebond I, and the open time of Titebond III. Needed to find something with extended open time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you! Is one really better than another? On the topic of GLUE! From my experience, all of these PVA-type glues respond poorly to temperature extremes. Okay, I messed up a maple table top with glue lines. Dont use Titebond if its cold in your shop. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. My post was just to highlight the less than desirable aspects of the combination, especially in structural applications. How to Bend Wood with Parallel Laminates - A Free Video from the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship, Titebond Instant Bond Wood Adhesive - Medium Viscosity, Titebond Instant Bond Wood Adhesive - Thick Viscosity, Titebond Instant Bond Wood Adhesive - Gel, Slow set times allow you to complete complex assemblies, Particularly useful in edge and face gluing and curved railings and other assemblies that require more time to align, Develops a bond stronger than the wood itself, May be used on all wood species as well as particleboard, MDF, plywood and other porous materials, High-quality brands and products you can trust, Expert advice and free post-purchase support, Exclusive, innovative products that help you Create with Confidence, Detailed instructions, technical specs and guides to make the most of your purchases. Votre domaine carolecouturier.com a bien t cr chez OVHcloud. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. And by not using too much clamping pressure so that plenty of glue stays in the joint and it doesnt go dry. But as a rule of thumb you should avoid gluing sealed wood if you can. See how you can get free standard shipping. But I have used CA glue to fill a small bullet hole in the surface of a black walnut table I built, and if you dont know it is there you would be hard pressed to find it. The primary issues have been noted, with creep being a real problem with all the PVAs. I only give it four stars because I guess I could use about 2 minutes more time, but more because I don't want Franklin International to get a big head. When repairing something like loose chair spreaders and spindles, it works well. 2000-2022 Home Depot. Read though these publications so you dont make a novice mistake. Manufacturer guarantees/warranties for power tools, CNC and laser products will supersede the Rockler Guarantee if these items are damaged or defective. But my gut reaction is that its fine. Friends on their way to help. Worked like a champ. Ive left TB3 bottles open for 48 hours with no ill effects. Im assuming these joints wont hold well, but I wondered if anyone else had had this happened before, and if so if the joints held or not? As with all PVAs (what TiteBond is), it suffers from joint creep under load and this is accelerated with moisture. Have a snug fit. I wonder if there is any difference between the three in the visibility of the glue line on light-colored woods. It took me about 15 minutes from start to completion. Any suggestions would be much appreciated! I would like the glue lines to be as invisible as possible. Unless I am missing something, doesnt the lower wood failure rate for Titebond III would indicate a higher rate for glue failure (or perhaps glue-wood interface failure)? I recently found out what they mean about shorter shelf life for Gorilla glue. Perfect for laminating waterskis, etc. Liquid hide glue, however, is considered to be inferior to traditional hot hide glue in strenght, but is a lot easier to use, with its long working time. Im guessing it is legal coverage. Premium Wood Glue 32 oz. Use glues like epoxy and polyurethane glue that dont depend on absorption into the fibers in order to work. Waterproof Insulating Sealant, Super Strong Bonding Sealant Invisible Waterproof An 180mL/320mL Portable Woodworking Glue Roller with Stand and Flow Control Switch Glu Swpeet 122Pcs Carbon Steel Color Zinc Plated Carbon Furniture Screw in Nut Threaded Rattan special tools, Weaving Tool for rattan sofa chairs and tables,Handicraft han JET 16" Ready-to-Wrap Sandpaper, 100 Grit (60-6100). 8 year old thread? I want to paint the boards after the glue application, with exterior latex paint. , Product Dimensions Im a fan. When the humidity does come its very short, and the AC units drive most of the humidity out of the air. I have seen some folks on forums giving Titebond hell for their overuse of the term waterproof. Well needless to say, we had another strong microbust in West Denver that it made the news. Note, I did drill some holes through the side of fence post cap into the post itself, as well as leaving the rail ends unsealed to let the moisture escape. Id use a true wood filler like Timbermate. Titebond Extend Glue is a slower setting version of Titebond Original Glue, with 15 minutes of open time. I appreciate your tips on clamping pressure and using a mixture of laminate materials, its pretty much what I was expecting to hear. Resorcinol is an option, though I wouldnt recommend it, unless you have perfectly fitted joints and can employ lots of clamping pressure. Ive had the same issue with the epoxy hardening after being on the shelf but not the same issue with wood glue. It is cheaper and is good down to 50 degrees as opposed to Titebond II which is good down to 55. Use of this site is subject to certain Terms Of Use. My next question would be what is better TiteBond Gorrilla Glue Elmers Wood Glue. Just about everything is an irritant to some extent. I do a lot of small veneer projects, and have always used a cold set veneer glue (Better Bond). Both have similar physical attributes of the major industry players, but at half the price. I am using a 3/4 X 4 X 93 plywood dado to join them. Strength-wise, there are some differences as well. Wow this is alot of discussion around glueI love every word of it! All content on The Wood Whisperer is copyrighted, and may not be reprinted in full form without my written consent. I am building an exterior door out of some real Honduras mahogany and American black cherry, 1-3/4 thick x 7 x 40, so fairly heavy. :->. Gorilla Glue does not rely on the pores to bond and makes a pretty strong joint as does epoxy. In a pinch, you can use epoxy. It dries hard. According to the American Wood Council, safe allowable shear strength for the best species of domestic woods is no more than 220 psi for structural design purposes. Maybe a silly question butwill either Titebond II or III bond to a wood surface which has been stained which contained a sealer as well? By this I mean highly loaded structures, frequently soaked or immersed joints and repairs should be considered before making the TiteBond decision. )nasty stuff. As I mentioned previously, my (and others) tests show the usually available epoxies, dont stick well to PVAs like TiteBond. also, whats the best way to get the glue into some of the hairline splits? If you wait until its gummy enough to scrape it does leave a nasty dark spot to contend with, but if you try and wipe it off with water right away and the board isnt thick enough to resist swelling you risk warping the end grain before the glue dries. You may also return purchases to a Rockler store near you for store credit. I'm doing some finger joints for a bunch of large drawers (don't ask me why!) If you clamp them tight youll starve the joint. Apparently CA adhesives (cyanoacrylate) are best for wood to copper. , Item model number good to know. DUDE!!! In personal and other independent testing, it softens and weakens considerably when immersed or well soaked, though it does seem to regain much, if not all of its strength when dried. Bottom line is that I reach for III for most work, but will use I or II for jigs or when quicker set is useful. the titabond is easy to use,and since Im screwing everything together,the slow set up time isnt a factor,but I made a wrong cut and had to take a bracing board out a couple days later,and it actually pulled the wood fibers out. Ive also found if you thin PVAs with water (10% or less) it ll increase open time and reduce viscosity a bit, which might help in getting tighter joints also. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. Very disappointed, to say the least. It seems to have faded away. Products shown as available are normally stocked but inventory levels cannot be guaranteed, For screen reader problems with this website, please call 1-800-430-3376 or text 38698 (standard carrier rates apply to texts), Waterproof Formula - Type 1 Water-resistance, Superior bond strength - longer open assembly time. Straight from the label on the bottle on titebond III Not for continuous submersion or for use below the waterline. I also dont want to clamp cuz dont know how and no means or tools or knowlegde Thanks for Any help. Use of this site is subject to certain Terms Of Use. Epoxy or maybe even polyurethane glue would be a better choice. I do this frequently to get contrasting colors in the laminate, though usually I stick with all hard or all softwoods. To calculate the overall star rating and percentage breakdown by star, we dont use a simple average. Speaking of glue Youll probably notice liquid hide has an expiration date on the bottom of the bottle. Titebond 1250 psi Une colle que je ne connaissais pas, mai maintenant je ne veut plus que cette colle. It does not store any personal data. Not exactly the best choice for maple/birch. This is outdoor patio furniture. The third difference is open time. I am curious though Marc, as a fellow resident in AZ do you find that wood movement is a real big issue since we are relatively dry climate most of the year, given the wood has a low moisture content during the build? Ill take a look. Since all PVA adhesives form a plastic film when dried this plastic will effectively melt once a sufficiently high temperature is reached. Also, IF II and III have relatively the same water resistance, as stated above, what advantage does the III have, if any? Im in a situation that is the opposite of most, I need a glue that sets up quickly. If you follow the directions Marc gives for gluing an end grain cutting board he says to wait a half hour and then scrape the squeeze out off, but Ive never seen TB3 dry enough in a half hour (remember the demonic humidity) to scrape it off like that. B-) Titebond III all the way! Well I dont know about you guys, but I am not about to stock three different types of PVA glue just for the sake of a few hundred theoretical PSI. : often utilizing different woods. You might have to check with Titebond, but if the glue looks good and pours nicely, its probably still good. If youre building indoor furniture correctly, you dont need to cover your bases. Just as the Whisperer said, a proper joint/construction with Titebond I is incredibly strong. :). Particularly useful in edge and face gluing and curved railings and other assemblies that require more time to align. :-). Your email address will not be published. Tricks for keeping Gorilla glue: Lastly in regard to resorcinol is the often objectionable glue line color. My worry is that based on what Ive read, Titebond 3 looses strength as the temperature rises and could cause my joints to open. Yes, I did follow the instructions and squeeze air out before capping. I find its cheaper and easier to just stick with titebond II and avoid storing my completed projects submerged in water. Glue isnt a great filler. :) http://www.rockler.com/titebon..?sid=AFN86, PAR said: I use TiteBond III on a lot of stuff and have developed a few new ways to handle it, including how to increase its marginal working time.. Essentially to simulate and speed up the WBP testing process, glued wooden joints are subjected to boiling water, drying and boiling water treatments over a several hours. Any one have any experience using it?? Titebond Extend develops a bond stronger than wood itself, offers excellent sandability, provides a translucent glue line, and is unaffected by finishes. While I appreciate TB3s ability to shrug off more moisture, the projects I have attempted have not required the increased capabilities of it. I am looking for some advice on gluing up oak fascia boards, I am lap joining 4- 30x120mm oak panels together with Sipo Dominos (Festool Dominos) ever 300mm aswell to hold the joint nice and tight. Copyright 2006-2022 The Wood Whisperer Inc. But in my opinion, there are only a few factors that really make a difference to the average woodworker. As an aside, luthiers tend to prefer Titebond 1 because it more easily allows you to do future repairs, as the glue will release with the application of heat and moisture. Once you get a handle on epoxy, youll find using other adhesives difficult, even with the mixing and stuff associated with epoxy. And hide glue is reverseable; i.e., if you need to do a repair you can loosen a hide-glue joint with water. Range Above 40 Degrees F, Curing Time 24 hrs., Application Time 15 min., VOC Content 1.0 g/L, Viscosity 3500cP, Tensile Strength 3510 psi, Substrates Wood, Particleboard, MDF, Plywood And Other Porous Materials, Slower Set Speed For Longer Work Time, Heat Resistant, Water Cleanup, Non-Toxic, Woodworking, Ideal For Complex Assemblies And Bent Laminations. For my lightweight indoor project, original sounds just fine. Do I have a drying time issue or are the tolerances too tight between the dado and the cedar? Can any of these glues be used to fill in cracks in PT decking? Wood glue needs to be absorbed into the fibers in order for it to have the strongest bond. Another great response, Marc, and very helpful to us newbies. Reviewed in the United States on March 20, 2022. Any product claim, statistic, quote or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider or party in question. This can be overcome by allowing the glue to soak into both surfaces for ~10 minutes before making the joint. I work with several adhesives in yacht building, restoration and repair. Its always sticky still. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The Wood Whisperer is proudly sponsored by brands that Marc trusts. Custom Doors, Drawers & Glass Accessories, Skip to the beginning of the images gallery. Anyone else having experiences similar to Gabe? This is a great discussion.