StreamlineLine Sets are available in lengths from 10 to 100 with various custom options and connections to meet every need, Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning & Refrigeration. Im not leaving any in there even if its not leaking now. Please note it is white pipe with white insulation as opposed to white pipe containing dark insulation. That one spot was nice bright copper that you would expect after a year and a half. Your email address will not be published. is likely the primary source of severe corrosion, not moisture and oxygen alone. So, I figured it would be good to cover the difference between wet and dry contacts in a tech tip. I wonder if anyone has had this issue within a building/covered walls or ceilings &on the low side of a system. Not earth shattering. So your saying ALL manufactures are having this issue! http://www.youtube.com/FergusonEnterprises, https://www.houzz.com/pro/fergusonshowrooms/ferguson-bath-kitchen-lighting-gallery, View All Janitorial & Cleaning Supplies >>, Drinking Fountains & Bottle Filling Stations. R410A Engineered and Tested, 10-year limited warranty on the copper tube, Our Company Condensate drains have uphills and downhills, and they may have traps, vents, and cleanouts throughout. I try to fatten myself up, but my metabolism disagrees. Arriving in the town of Badwater to claim a ranch owned by his now-deceased former business partner--who had once tried to kill him--Slade encounters resistance from hired gunmen and a woman claiming to be the deceased owner's daughter-in A romance between a playwright and a collaborator is rekindled after ten years during which time they both experienced many changes. Those familiar will know the difference. These line sets are manufactured by the company P.D.M. It is possible that the same principle may apply to copper line sets. i would buy the tubing and insulation separately if necessary to get the correct tubing, it will be cheaper than having to fix a couple in the long run. I think I posted a video here or somewhere a while back, took the line back to our shop and I pressurized it, bubbled it. A subreddit for Heating, Ventilation, & Air Conditioning technicians - please visit r/hvacadvice to ask general questions, and r/thermostats for thermostat issues! I like the insulation, the way it looks. Thats the problem. Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. Knowing that those pinholes are likely to be the external manifestation of interior copper line corrosion, can replacement of deteriorated insulation and taping & end-sealing alone abate further copper corrosion or should linesets be replaced entirely? Single zone system? Many VOCs in common household products, like formic or acetic acid in cleaners or solvents, interact with moisture and oxygen to corrode copper evaporator coils. Something to Watch For When Replacing a Thermostat, Single vs. multiple drains with other appliances, Drain pitch and if there could be too much fall. By that I mean the tubing and not the connections. One thing is certain, though. Great discussion! x 30 ft. Mini-Split Line Set, 1/4 x 1/2 in. The location of a vent can help equalize the siphoning effects of pressurization. Brian is also the owner of Chadwick Air, and Neil is a co-owner of Comparetto Comfort Solutions and a longtime contributor to HVAC School. Really? I have just a few systems in using said insulated piping but I have noticed one manafactures states on the box that its 10 year warranty against leaks or failure of tubing what ever the legally means .never saw that on any piece of any type of copper tubing acr or whatever that I have ever purchased .on another note where all the leaks concerned on longer line set lengths usually Im getting 50 to 100 ft line sets .i guess every business needs return business weather good or bad .i have only seen that on mini split line sets a few guys I work for use pre insulated sets for there ref lines I see no warranty statement on them but I will say the annealing on the tubing sucks very brittle I complain every time I do a set w this junk personally I either use straight hard or rolls of uninsulated acr and use 1/2 wall armoflex to insulate but never a kink . Do you know how a solenoid valve works? document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The manufacture agreed to replace the unit. Thank you for providing this platform and all your great YTvideos. Another potential (but not proven) risk factor for corrosion is having the insulated line set near high concentrations of VOCs (volatile organic compounds). 3 acts, 7 scenes, 2 men, 4 women, 1 interior. Now the copper is isolated from the insulation. As such, we can only do so much to reduce corrosion risks during installation or maintenance. , VOCs contribute to formicary corrosion in copper evaporator coils in tight, poorly ventilated homes. The sealant should be waterproof, UV-resistant, and have a strong adhesive. But that's about it. Something went wrong. Considering that some manufacturers use other companies parts and that Isoclima is not an American company, the quality of their copper and insulation is difficult to judge. Many Isoclima line sets have corroded very shortly after being installed. It turns out that the answer isn't [], This is a video tech tip from our friend Brad at HVAC in SC. However, one undebatable fact is that various line set manufacturers have starkly different rates of corrosion. If you don't tape every cut in the insulation and seal the ends with silicone you'll be ripping it all out eventually. Its also worth noting that double-lugging is a poor practice that is against code. In those cases, redundancy is desirable to prevent overflowing. I have been educated by the local Rep on line sets leaks and it matches up with what you state din the article. Born in 1900, Roxanna Slade recounts how the events of two World Wars, the racial division of the South, and her own private tragedies combine to change her life forever, Yankees once feared alcohol would kill call-up. Shrub we had two leakers thus far. Lines were never taped pursuant to ASTM instructions and Mitsubishi requirements and ends never sealed to avoid moisture and oxygen intrusion. If you have an iPhone, subscribe to the podcast HERE, and if you have an Android phone, subscribe HERE. I'm unsure what you mean by white pipe though. On the high-voltage side, the disconnect should be in a secure location, and it should be able to keep water out. Thats exactly what Im worried about, I have jobs with hundreds of feet of this stuff. Acid makes little pinholes in the copper inside the insulation, many of which wont be visible to the naked eye. When I found your theory I went back and looked at some of the pictures I took when I disassembled the unit. They claim to glue any tear and tape the ends to prevent moisture. that shit should damage the exposed and/or contacted surfaces. (The original fitting was from RapidLock while the brand was still under the ZoomLock name.) One flavor has a texture, like knurling; but I think l I've seen a smooth covering too. I have a collection of nasty looking copper. The tubing kinks very easily. x 40 ft. Standard Line Set, JMF EZ-Pull 3/8 x 3/4 in. Basically, dry contacts are switches with no shared [], 2021 - HVAC School | All rights reserved, This article includes significant contributions from Neil Comparetto and Brian Chadwick, both of whom are HVAC technicians in Virginia. So far the ones Ive looked at and found it with pin holes werent the jobs Ive done but now Im expecting phone calls. The telltale sign of corrosion is a leak. I got reimbursed for the first few, but not my last one. That way, moisture. They sent me a current copy of the line set manufacturers installation instructions where in it was "recommended" to seal the ends of the insulation to the copper. All rights reserved. I'll be using the line sets with the armaflex. That means that it is possible (but not certain) that other pre-insulated copper companies may source their PE insulation from PDM. Copper Tube In those cases, the symptoms are like those of leaky flares. 3rd year apprentice No lambs or tight spaces today boys. That way, moisturecan't interact with the insulation and form acid inside. Coated elastomeric insulation utilizes a co-extruded jacket that request no additional cover or coating. No more copper to worry about lolor..the explosion issue with LP lol We first noticed this issue about 2 months ago on a project with 300+ VRF Systems originally installed beginning of 2018. The purpose of this section is NOT to disparage or endorse any manufacturers. The best thing you can do is seal both ends of the insulation with caulk or sealant to prevent moisture from coming in. Logical Fallacies False Cause & Strawman, Tips for Learning in HVAC/R w/ Trevor Matthews, Giving Kids The Tools For Any Job They Want, Refrigerant Changes Coming & The Helix w/ Emerson. I've personally rolled out thousands of feet of these Linsets and plenty are leaking. Submittals Think of how much of this product has been installed since its arrival in the market. I hope we got the color thing cleared up. For now, it might just be worth your while to get your hands on a high-quality caulk or give the elastomeric black insulation a try. Thats going to be a pain. I have 50+ installs out there with this insulation im starting to worry. I have been reported of few new black rubber elastomeric line sets failures by the local contractors community and so I gave credit to the ISOTECH product. Brian is also the owner of, Although there isnt much definitive information on the. Little more expensive than the standard line sets but it seems to me to be the solution to all corrosion problems. The even stranger part of the situation is that several ductless systems are only a few months to a few years old when they start leaking due to corrosion. Are they are White vertical Lines - LG UltraGear 27GN800-B. Any moisture between the pipe and insulation will cause pinholes. Haven't had any leaks. However, the adhesive isnt usually strong enough to stop moisture and air from coming in. Still, the trends and the collective frustration in the residential HVAC side of the industry dont lie; there is a problem, and wed like to find a way around it. THAT is likely the primary source of severe corrosion, not moisture and oxygen alone. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Its been random places, now that you mention it the majority is on the run up the side of the house before going inside. This is the only article I have been able to find on this issue. Its ALWAYS on the line sets that come with the white insulation. Its one weak link in it s amour and lets not forget bringing in fresh air and all that jazz that comes w semi large office spaces . Considering that some manufacturers use other companies parts and that Isoclima is not an American company, the quality of their copper and insulation is difficult to judge. are you talking about mini splits with pre packaged and insulated line sets, or something similar? I have been using a coated copper pipe (ISOTECH) that seems to work well as the metal is now isolated from the external environment. I would just go back to using armaflex it's more work but if it's going to Crate pinhole leaks in the line set that's a no-go. Ive spoken with a few people and they stated the manufacturer said its because of the chemical they use to make the insulation UV resistant, it reacts with water and air and creates pin holes on the pipe. Browse Ferguson's job categories, organized by industry, to find professional-grade equipment, tools and parts for a wide range of projects. Elastomeric insulation has a UV retardant added but it is recommended to cover or apply a coating for long term exposure. Required fields are marked *. We have hundreds of locations nationwide, ready to meet your needs. This work inspires us to believe in the indestructibility of the human spirit. These black sets must be 30% heavier, very noticeable. I swapped out all my fail line set with good ole elastomeric. This line was used on several consecutive installs and every one of them leaked after a year. (They corrode within months, if not straight out of the box.). I love this one You are done testing the system and set As promised, I wrote my name more level this time :D. So were doing braze joints now? I wouldn't use that insulation then. Is anyone having issues with white linesets leaking? Some of you may have noticed that some mini-split line set manufacturers have an interesting sticker on the box: The stickers are yellow and tell you to seal both ends of the line set. I posted on HVAC-Talk and only 1 so far with leaks. Of course, once you do that, you can always spray the line set with some. Remember, thats why the manufacturers recommend sealing both ends; its to cut off moistures access points. The definition of slade in the dictionary is a dingle or small valley. Including recorded tech training, interviews, diagnostics and general conversations about the trade. I have over 9,000' of this stuff out there. The system appears to be low on charge. Im sure some of you already know the answer. This book provides a comprehensive account of conversation in English and its implications for the ELT classroom. Had another leaking line today, not at the connections but pin holes through the tubing. x 35 ft. Standard Line Set, JMF EZ-Pull 3/8 x 3/4 in. They have there place and theres loads of pluses but if approached about installing a large vrf system I would ponder those issues but this is me and I know the same can be said for all direct cooling systems including ducted splits ,rooftops and self contained terminal units . I burn wood, it smells good! We started insulating our own copper, and now I guess there is some new black pre-insulated copper that we are using. However, that doesnt mean that there will be a leak in every green spot (or that leaks wont occur in the dark brown regions). It does seem to last better than Armaflex when you're pulling it. It must be manufacturer specific. Brian Chadwick has seen corrosion on the bodies of quite a few PDM-brand pre-insulated line sets, but the fittings sometimes have issues as well. In this video, Brad demonstrates that using a cap off of a refrigerant tank on a system can depress the Schrader core on the system in some cases. So, there must be a reason why moisture must be kept out of the system. Although there isnt much definitive information on the causes of these issues, weve still noticed some trends that can help us understand and repair line set corrosion. Your email address will not be published. Then, you just sit back and watch for bubbles to form. x 25 ft. Standard Line Set, JMF EZ-Pull 3/8 x 3/4 in. or other leak detection fluid. i would stop buying those linsets and make sure i'm getting full thickness tubing. Makes at least 3 for us. Mild acids irritate your tongue at least a little bit, so you could probably imagine the damage that acids could inflict on copper. Just 9 stitches, Press J to jump to the feed. This is the 3rd time I found a lineset leaking on the actual pipe with pinhole leaks all over it. All we can do is be aware of the issues that certain line sets have and listen to what others in our industry have done to combat them. Recent white insulation deterioration that seems to be clearly due to formicary corrosion . (They corrode within months, if not straight out of the box, (but not proven) risk factor for corrosion is having the insulated line set near high concentrations of VOCs (volatile organic compounds). According to the customer, the system is less than five years old. The residential HVAC technicians in our audience may be familiar with the following scenario: Youre on a service call for a ductless system that isnt working properly. Looks like the same stuff as the white ones, just black. We leverage our many years of experience and expertise producing copper tube in every line set we make. Other than the line set corrosion and O-ring failures, those systems that Brian worked on had no other apparent issues. Cleanouts and vents may be confused for each other, but cleanouts allow the technician to access and clean the drain. Streamline Line Sets have been an industry leader for decades. Im glad to have found this article and I think your on to something. Multi zone? Once we figured it out, we changed all that 1/4". Ferguson Enterprises, LLC. I really like that coated insulation does not seem to be effected to uv deteration like armoflex and handle weather exposure a lot better over time peace n good luck clammy. There seems to be a problem completing the request at present. the leak potential could be a nightmare, Theres a reason why they use indirect cooling over direct expansion cooling in commercial buildings unless your gonna get in massive exhaust systems that will need to meet code to remove total charge lose to one small area . Do not run high voltage wiring in parallel with low-voltage or control wiring. The wires should be appropriately sized, have an appropriate level of tension, and should not be vulnerable to chafing or abrasion. Anything with a higher pH, like soap or bleach, is basic. Secondary drain pans should be large enough to overlap with the primary pan, especially in horizontal air handlers. Despite being protected by fancy polyethylene (PE) sheaths, copper line sets often corrode and leak beneath the squishy barrier. As you can see, there isnt a straight answer as to what is really going on with those PE-insulated line sets. If you were going to use it you would have to put duct sealer on it. This segment is an overview of real technicians experiences and research on a common issue. One thing I did notice and will get some photos. So far it is 8 different 164' rolls that had leaks. I have a lot of white linesets out there for years now. We've just seen the white insulation and no problems so far, but this is a good heads up if it does. Contact, Catalogs/Brochures HVAC & Refrigeration Controls & Circuit Boards, {"modules":["unloadOptimization","bandwidthDetection"],"unloadOptimization":{"browsers":{"Firefox":true,"Chrome":true}},"bandwidthDetection":{"url":"https://ir.ebaystatic.com/cr/v/c1/thirtysevens.jpg","maxViews":4,"imgSize":37,"expiry":300000,"timeout":250}}, Ninja 3-in-1 Food Processor with Auto-iQ BN800UKDB | Certified Refurbished, Outsunny Hammock Swing Chair 3-Seater Patio Bench Garden Dark Grey Outdoor, Ninja Foodi MAX 9.5L Dual Zone Air Fryer - AF400UK, LARGE FAMILY SWIMMING POOL GARDEN OUTDOOR SUMMER INFLATABLE PADDLING POOLS /PUMP, Vanish Oxi Action Powder Fabric Stain Remover 2.4 kg, REFURBISHED Vax OnePWR Blade 4 Pet Cordless Vacuum Cleaner 0.6L 18V CLSV-B4KPRB, electriQ Whole Fruit Power Juicer 990W in Stainless Steel with Jug. something else to look foward to in the ac buisness. Made in Italy actually, at least that is what the white insulation says on it. One thing is certain, though. Make sure to use proper caps that have seals or brass flare cones. not a vrf fan. x 25 ft. Mini-Split Line Set, 1/4 x 3/8 in. Thriller Bernard Slade Characters: 3 male, 3 female Interior Set That stellar practitioner of Broadway comedy at its best has here turned his hand, quite successfully we believe, to another genre the mystery thriller. A greenish color indicates the most severe instances of copper corrosion (think about old pennies). DISCLAIMER: A lot of the information in this article is based on field experience and does not appear to have a peer-reviewed scientific basis. Pulled first 35 ft on shortest zone only to find pin holes every where. There are a couple of different manufacturers. WASHINGTON On the day he seriously thought never would arrive as late as this past November, England coach Stuart Lancaster hails Henry, Cardiff City can still win promotion to the Premier League despite their slow start to the season, new manager Russell. When searching for the heavy leak I had one 3 inch spot where the white insulation was cut but didnt have slack to splice so a piece of split black insulation was install then taped over with LS300. not penetrate in precise, consistent locations. [], I was talking about dry contacts with one of my techs, and he looked at me like I had three headsand one of them was on fire.
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